02 - Ecohorror, Climate Fiction, and Teaching Sustainability | with Natalie Dederichs

00:00:00: Eco-Horror really is about losing control of, in this case the non human environment.

00:00:09: Because that's what eco-horror also for children and young adults does.

00:00:13: It doesn't deal with a frightening outer world.

00:00:16: it rather deals With the horror off the adult society creating The mess that we're in And thereby giving students Well a voice again to address This kind of frustration and anger.

00:00:30: Okay, so the horror of exposure right?

00:00:33: The outside world threatening human beings in the form of horrific plant monsters.

00:00:43: Then we have the horror off the vegetal within like being transformed for the better or for worse by vegetal encounters and to the horror.

00:00:59: So this is actually what I mean with emo ecocriticism and also the emo genation, so turning to the darker sides of the environmental thought.

00:01:36: Welcome to Of The Road a podcast about environmental humanities!

00:01:40: Beyond policy or science we explore meaningful stories in conversation about climate and culture.

00:01:46: We are Gilberto Mazzoli

00:01:48: And Janusz Borskii.

00:01:49: Our guest today is Natalie Dideriz.

00:01:52: In this episode we will speak with Natalie about climate fiction teaching, especially selecting Climate Fiction for the classroom.

00:02:00: Eco and plant horror as well as the emotional and philosophical ways of dealing with climate change in an endangered world.

00:02:09: So today our guest is Natalie Diderichs.

00:02:13: Welcome Natalie!

00:02:14: Hi Just a few words about yourself.

00:02:17: you're currently serving as an academic counselor.

00:02:20: did I translate that correctly?

00:02:22: Well it's actually quite difficult to pin down what I'm doing.

00:02:26: from twenty-twenty

00:02:33: to two thousand

00:02:36: twenty

00:02:37: three.

00:02:39: Right after she did her PhD, from two thousand and eighteen to two hundred twenty one also at the University of

00:03:03: Bonn.

00:03:04: Okay Natalie is also the author a book called Atmospheres The Uncanny Climate Of Contemporary Ecofiction which appeared with transcript in two thousand thirty three.

00:03:14: And Natalie you have published widely on topics such as teaching climate fiction, eco-horror including plant horror which I'm excited to get into because it's all very new to me.

00:03:24: And also in generally speaking introducing ecological and environmental perspectives into reading less and greening the canon so to say.

00:03:36: you're also part of Mesh Which is the multidisciplinary environmental studies in the humanities?

00:03:44: You've taught a number of cool classes that maybe also want to get into later, but anyway thank you for coming and welcome.

00:03:51: Welcome to the show!

00:03:52: Yeah Thank You For inviting me.

00:03:54: I'm thrilled To be here And talk about my research.

00:03:57: yeah

00:03:57: Great Maybe just start us off...you can maybe Start by telling us a bit of About why are in Constance today.

00:04:05: So, I've been in touch with Dominic Steinhilber from the Department of American Studies for quite some time because we both figured that were interested in the Uncanny as a concept.

00:04:16: Because it somehow is good term to describe the kind pervasive feeling which seems like human beings in the twenty-first century and this climate change as a phenomenon is omnipresent.

00:04:34: But we cannot really pin it down, right?

00:04:36: So you can't touch and see or feel it but still it hovers above us even through us And human beings have a hard time making sense of it.

00:04:48: This is why for example Dominik and I say these times are kind of uncanny.

00:04:53: Other researchers take similar views towards that And since not many people, at least in my department are dealing with this question, Dominik and I joined forces to talk about it.

00:05:07: He invited me for a guest lecture which I gave yesterday evening where we talked how the twenty-first century really feels uncanny and eerie and creepy as well as reflected in literature.

00:05:25: Yeah, sorry for the quick tangent but could you maybe tell us a bit more about what the uncanny is in relationship to the environment?

00:05:31: For people who are listening.

00:05:32: Who are unfamiliar with that term

00:05:34: yeah So it's uncanny really describes the feeling or a feeling of not feeling at home right.

00:05:40: so It is a term coming from psychology And its German connotation kind of different meaning.

00:05:50: It actually means unheimlich, so not feeling at home.

00:05:55: So it's the opposite of die heimliche and somewhat oddly translates into English as uncanny Right?

00:06:05: You feel the uncanny when for example you cannot really pin down a strange feeling within a location or encountering an environment that feels like it shouldn't really feel, and you are thrown off by it.

00:06:25: You cannot say what throws your off so... It's not horror!

00:06:30: It is kind of a eerie feeling.

00:06:33: And yesterday we also talked about the fact that We can't even say if there was any emotion or effect.

00:06:41: What does this mean?

00:06:42: There is no straightforward answer to that.

00:06:46: In your research and in teaching You also use the concept of climate fiction.

00:06:53: Could you give our listeners an idea?

00:06:57: Climate fiction is a difficult term because it's so fuzzy and broad, as at its most basic.

00:07:05: we could say that any literary text or with text I mean films games movies plays picture books deal with climate change-related phenomena and how they affect people, their relationships with one another... ...and their relationship to animals or environments.

00:07:27: These are texts that are defined as Climate Fiction.

00:07:32: Some researchers including Axel Goodbody and Adeline Johns Putras have therefore said a text that combines facts about climate change with fictional elements, has to be defined or can be defined as climate fiction.

00:07:53: So there needs some sort of explicit mentioning of climate-change related phenomena.

00:07:58: but... As much I agree this definition I think it's hard to say what are climate change related phenomena.

00:08:06: So where do we start?

00:08:08: Of course, We have movies such as The Day After Tomorrow which is quite famous right Where we have an extreme weather event where climate change somehow Is shown in a very extreme way.

00:08:20: so you can't say okay this clearly climate fiction because It affects the people.

00:08:26: but then again books also written for children like Drs which implicitly deal with climate change.

00:08:35: So the term is never mentioned, there's no extreme weather event.

00:08:40: instead you encounter for example a creature in fantasy world that still has to deal with resource depletion.

00:08:49: and now I think we cannot say this isn't climate fiction.

00:08:55: So, I would argue that instead of saying what is climate fiction and what isn't any fictional text... ...that creates a feeling of estrangement in you about what's happening around the world.

00:09:12: That induces some kind of fears or anxieties on an environment which makes you think about your place in it anyway….

00:09:22: …is climate-fiction to YOU!

00:09:26: And you take a very interesting approach to, I suppose selecting the kinds of texts that you read in class but maybe also for your own research.

00:09:36: You focus particularly on text that are giving us anxiety and fear... ...you're writing about eco-horror!

00:09:45: That sort of a genre which is what you're interested in?

00:09:49: What's Eco-Horror?

00:09:51: Yeah, eco-horror is actually not a genre at all.

00:09:53: At least no worries it's hard to pin down again.

00:09:57: so um eco-hora is rather a mode right?

00:10:00: A mode of writing that can be used in works of climate fiction to induce in readers certain negative negatively connotated emotions towards the environment deals with fears of human beings towards the environment and somehow tries to confront us what sometimes is called ecophobia or eco-anxiety.

00:10:35: The world, a natural world something outside that seems to be threatening basic human fear.

00:10:43: maybe that you want to protect yourself as a human being and You don't want outer forces to control.

00:10:51: You.

00:10:51: so eco horror really is about losing control of in this case the non-human environment, and This is off course very problematic because In this case nature it's still something very much outside that is seen as something threatening.

00:11:10: And when we put this into relation to sustainability, and then want create more sustainable futures and reconnect with nature right?

00:11:21: To prevent further destroying the planet than maybe eco-horror or creating these fears can through fiction literature Maybe not helpful at all.

00:11:36: So there is this kind of ambivalence.

00:11:38: Do these fears function as a wake-up call or do they even foster more?

00:11:43: Fears and Foster the divide between culture and nature even further?

00:11:48: Yeah, yeah.

00:11:48: And what I mean?

00:11:50: could you give us an example of eco horror?

00:11:52: Is this like a disaster movie or book or it's just about something more creepy in personal?

00:11:59: plans coming at you, I know.

00:12:01: You've been working on plan stuff a bit?

00:12:04: Yeah so eco-horror can be employed for example in the day after tomorrow.

00:12:12: So whenever there is nature presented in really dangerous threatening way In the form of extreme weather events this part of eco-hora.

00:12:25: but also have movies such as Jaws where you have animal attacks, right?

00:12:31: Where non-human nature also disrupts the human body.

00:12:36: This is also eco-horror.

00:12:38: and whenever plants are bad guys in these productions then this is also ecohorror or plant horror.

00:12:48: so that's why I wouldn't argue it can be used for different works of fiction genres, really.

00:13:01: And what led you to focus on eco-horror in exploring children's and young adults' fiction?

00:13:08: So it actually started while I was working at a school which was right after my PhD so i already dealt with uncanny atmospheres and the environment of projects.

00:13:22: then i wanted to practice I wanted to see, okay how can we actually use and teach eco-horror or climate fiction with kids?

00:13:37: And what are the effects of potentials.

00:13:40: Also challenges in teaching these kinds of

00:13:44: texts.".

00:13:47: Also interesting because I taught at a school during the time where Fridays for future marches were still a thing.

00:13:53: Extinction, rebellion was on the minds of my students.

00:13:56: so they are pretty much interested in this topic already which is always helpful.

00:14:00: So you have to choose texts that close your student's life world and their reality To make it more authentic even And this is really where it all came from, and I opted for a quite famous text in children's young adult fiction.

00:14:20: It's called Fuzzy Mud by Louis Sekar.

00:14:24: Fuzzy mud?

00:14:25: This was the book that i chose to test how climate fiction or eco-horror can actually be used with students.

00:14:34: work of eco-horror in a way.

00:14:37: Three teenagers uncover dangerous manmade organism that leads to an epidemic, right?

00:14:44: So it was very close to the COVID experience... Oh yeah!

00:14:47: That sounds spooky at the time.

00:14:48: ...that my students

00:14:48: also made which is interesting because Fuzzy Mud was published in twenty fifteen.

00:14:53: Okay Yeah so its kind of prophetic In a way Right Of what happened afterwards.

00:14:58: and The thing is that I chose the book not to see.

00:15:07: okay, how can I scare my students into taking action about the environment?

00:15:13: Because as a teacher you don't indoctrinate students into actions.

00:15:17: You just give them options and they do have this feeling.

00:15:20: these fears or anxieties are in the minds of younger generations but they're seldomly given room to discuss these feelings in the classroom.

00:15:34: And I think through climate fiction, through eco-horror you are giving this safe space to discuss those feelings as well.

00:15:41: and now i'm rambling a bit but that is actually where wanted connect my research interest with teaching practice.

00:15:49: No it's super interesting!

00:15:53: How did your students react?

00:15:56: Were you framing the class as something about your eco-horror?

00:16:00: Or were they surprised to read eco-hora in a class?

00:16:03: that's about, I don't know sustainability.

00:16:05: The environment nature whatever it may be.

00:16:09: Yeah so i didn't explicitly teach eco-hora.

00:16:13: That's taught eco-Horror right.

00:16:16: and When it comes to climate fiction an eco horror written for younger audience You have to keep in mind eco-horror tone is not central to the text.

00:16:33: These are still coming of age stories that revolve around teenage fears, about growing up conflicts with parents feeling lovesick, so all of the things that are central to the teenage experience.

00:16:48: So these are the things you also teach while there is in case of fuzzy mud for example an environmental catastrophe right?

00:17:00: I cannot really say how my students reacted to eco-horror because this was not my aim or lessons.

00:17:08: still We talked about issues such as overconsumption, overpopulation and pollution because it's central to this novel.

00:17:23: My students weren't scared away!

00:17:26: right off from this kind of eco-horror, rather they felt empowered to express their frustration with adult decisions because that's what eco-hora also for children and young adults does.

00:17:40: It doesn't deal with a frightening outer world.

00:17:43: it rather deals with the horror of the adult society creating the mess that we're in this kind of frustration and anger as well.

00:17:56: And that's what we did or they did, and they wanted to discuss it.

00:18:02: I guess if you want to find out how students react to eco-horror then you would have to conduct an empirical study

00:18:16: what's called REACH, which stands for Reading For Change Clifilab.

00:18:21: And I think that is an initiative you started at the University of Cologne?

00:18:26: Yeah together with Roman Bartosz!

00:18:28: Okay nice and You guys are basically making it or want to make it easier for teachers i suppose To select Clive Climate Fiction Ecoholytex to teach in a classroom.

00:18:41: And I was just curious if you could tell us a bit more about the origin story of that project and what you guys are intending to do.

00:18:49: Yes, so first off all in The Clifile Lab we believe reading climate fiction may set into motion processes of actively envisioning familiar alternative visions which can be both utopian and dystopian.

00:19:10: We wanted to focus on the affordances of literary texts because dealing with scientific facts about climate change, dealing with data and explicitly teaching our students isn't enough.

00:19:24: And that's also not really our aim in the humanities.

00:19:28: and then literature, literature and language pedagogy.

00:19:31: instead we want to refocus the attention to what language actually does to us?

00:19:36: In this case What can fiction do?

00:19:38: but also what can be done with language?

00:19:51: or a challenge here, is that teachers are well aware... ...that you have to teach about these issues.

00:20:00: Actually they HAVE TO teach it because its part of the curriculum and at least in North Rhine with failure.

00:20:05: teachers have to teaching about education for sustainable development on all subjects so we have to address them one way or another.

00:20:14: but As you can imagine, teachers are having already a very demanding time-consuming job which leaves little room to read widely and then come into a very refined decision on what actually to read.

00:20:32: And the consequence at least in... What I know from my teaching practice sometimes is that you just choose one book form of the big publishing houses.

00:20:42: That's already advertised very cleverly, right?

00:20:45: Or you ask colleagues and take a look at what they are reading as well.

00:20:50: Absolutely understandable!

00:20:52: Secondly... You have to learn your learners very well.

00:20:56: You need their interest or motivation triggers, but also you need to take into consideration aspects such as price and availability of a book.

00:21:08: And these are all factors that make it really hard decide or to select the novel for example our picture book for your classroom... ...and I came up with an idea and wish-to-invent tool which could help teachers choose climate fiction To a decision on what to read to make this process easier.

00:21:32: And that's where when we invented or are still in the process of inventing What do you call?

00:21:39: The climate fiction checklist?

00:21:41: right it's important.

00:21:42: You know, that is checklists use at the moment, is not meant for deciding what's a good work of climate fiction and bad book.

00:21:52: It's more about guiding teachers through the process of analyzing certain themes or refocusing their attention to aspects.

00:22:05: This is a concept by Roman Bartosz as well.

00:22:07: So, what does the language actually do when it comes to scaling experiences in the Anthropocene?

00:22:15: How are non-human protagonists portrayed?

00:22:19: Does this book provide some sort of identification potential that can then be used in the classroom picked up on in the checklist and that should help teachers to analyze a book.

00:22:35: Yeah,

00:22:36: so how do you mean there's some as you said at the beginning I mean You know if you define Climate fiction is something has having to with climate change and its symptoms?

00:22:47: I mean almost everything isn't some ways related to climate change or made possible or denied by climate change?

00:22:56: What are the criteria that you use to select novels?

00:22:59: Or is it just novels or other stuff.

00:23:03: Again, climate fiction is any kind of text really but in the Climate Fiction Lab at the moment we're focusing on novels and plays... ...but also mostly picture books or storybooks because we teach future teachers in English who will be working primary schools, for example which means that picture books are really relevant to our students and for our library.

00:23:31: And you asked about the kind of criteria again?

00:23:34: Yeah

00:23:35: like how do you select novels that make it into a list or other texts... That's

00:23:41: good question.

00:23:42: so we just randomly bought two hundred three hundred books right Google climate fiction for kids really and just bought books.

00:23:57: And in the process, we then figured out what is our definition or can be considered climate fiction?

00:24:06: What's maybe too

00:24:07: far-fetched?".

00:24:08: This was still a process.

00:24:09: I have to be honest because as i said it's hard to pin down what is climate fiction but the criteria that used are how... how is climate change aesthetically portrayed in a way?

00:24:24: How appealing are pictures and picture books, so what can be said about the visual literacy as well.

00:24:32: But also how does language reflect some sort of concerns with environment or... Well, how is climate change narrative?

00:24:46: This can be dystopian or utopian so we're pretty much open when it comes to that.

00:24:55: Is there like a preconceived aim... ...that teachers are meant to convey through these texts...?

00:25:03: Or just sort of open-ended and this is the book about climate change.

00:25:10: do with it what you like?

00:25:11: I mean, as we said before there's differences.

00:25:14: Do you want to teach...I mean especially with young adults and children-you wanna teach them something positive but that can be at the same time sort of okay.

00:25:23: We've done enough reading this book!

00:25:24: We feel good And now we don't do anything.

00:25:25: or maybe as with horror You shock then into action Or do something with him.

00:25:33: But when selecting these texts So have some thing in mind That teachers do With those text.

00:25:37: Yeah absolutely The aim really of teaching literature in this case and teaching climate fiction is, of course to help students use language to partake.

00:25:51: In for example discourses right?

00:25:55: To empower them language or storytelling and use it as a tool to, first of all deal with their own anxieties.

00:26:05: And emotions and feelings but also to imagine actively imagined alternative future.

00:26:12: so imagining how do I want to live?

00:26:14: What kind of Future Do i Want To Live in is very important too this Kind Of Climate Change Literacy.

00:26:21: So It's Less About scaring Them Into Action But More about Empowering them to write their own future, quite literally in this case.

00:26:31: And through that finding the voice for example of sustainability discourse because these will be future citizens who have make up their mind about environment related issues.

00:26:49: But yeah, I mean it's always difficult because we are not supposed to indoctrinate our students.

00:26:55: It is more.

00:26:56: fiction in this case can be seen also as a democratizing tool helping students gain or have certain different viewpoints on the topic and then decide which viewpoint they support for example.

00:27:15: Great!

00:27:15: And besides teaching or thinking about how environmental literature can be taught more effectively in the classroom.

00:27:24: You are also currently working on your habilitation project with the name... I try!

00:27:32: It's called, as of now at least, planting seeds of imagination reading and teaching dark vegetable.

00:27:41: Sorry, that's so wrong.

00:27:42: That's not vegetable it's vegetal futures.

00:27:46: It's a tentative

00:27:46: title.

00:27:48: Maybe the title will be changed So we're fine.

00:27:50: Yeah

00:27:51: maybe you can't be about vegetables after all.

00:27:54: I actually do have a comic book in my repertoire which deals with horrific vegetables.

00:28:00: yeah yeah yeah

00:28:02: That has to go on the list

00:28:04: I'm not sure.

00:28:07: Anyway, let's redo the title real quick.

00:28:09: so I get it right this time.

00:28:11: It is called Planting Seeds of Emojination Reading and Teaching Dark Vegetable Futures.

00:28:18: This is so difficult!

00:28:20: But maybe that was a sign for me to change the title after all?

00:28:23: So when i see these words my brain just goes on autopilot.

00:28:29: Okay lets do one more time.

00:28:33: The project is currently titled planting seeds of imagination, reading and teaching dark vegetal futures.

00:28:41: So got it right this time.

00:28:44: a bunch of terms that we have to probably clarify first.

00:28:49: so maybe let's start with Dark Vegetal Futures.

00:28:55: what are you looking at?

00:28:56: What is the stuff?

00:28:59: I started by looking at what is plant horror because i'm just I'm a plant lady.

00:29:06: I love plants and apparently, a lot of ecocritics are also interested in plants even though there is new trend now people turning towards water and the blue humanities.

00:29:17: but it was time not long ago that we still have time where people are interested what's called cultural plant studies.

00:29:27: There're lots publications on plant horror for example written for an adult readership, but only a handful of publications on how this is reimagined for younger readerships.

00:29:43: And I then organized also conference and invited very cool people from around the world who deal with these questions to see what is planned horror first off all.

00:30:01: Is it rather utopian mode of writing or dystopian mode?

00:30:05: Of writing?

00:30:06: and most off the kind of plant fiction out there written for a younger readership is utopian, right Or not necessarily utopian but it uses plans.

00:30:17: For example as companions Right they're acting essentially as friends so that very much anthropomorphized.

00:30:27: And still there are some books that deal with the environment in a more eerie way.

00:30:33: And, with environment I mean plants really.

00:30:37: so there are at least a few picture books and novels that imagine okay what could world look like without vegetation for example?

00:30:47: In future...and this is where the idea of dark vegetal futures came from.

00:30:58: three depictions of this dark, vegetal future.

00:31:02: Of how plant horror is narrated for a youngish readership?

00:31:06: First off all... How we are confronted with the collapsing vegetable environment so that in order not to have a vegetable environment any longer We find these in movies such as Wall-E For example you wouldn't say it's plant horror.

00:31:26: But if you think about how it is horrific to not have a vegetal environment, I think this is eerie and this is plant horror.

00:31:33: So the horror of not having plants right?

00:31:42: plant horror.

00:31:43: And then we have a few works that actually deal with stalking, haunting plants that are killing people.

00:31:53: for example in Kenneth Oppel's Bloom which is quite famous and popular it is essentially Oh, sorry.

00:32:13: I forgot the name

00:32:14: is okay.

00:32:17: what's a book about?

00:32:19: Well it's about plants killing people and teenagers uniting to regain control over the environment.

00:32:25: yeah so this really extreme form of plant horror.

00:32:31: Maybe the first association we have with a term and then, uh... We have dark vegetal future stories that deal with contagious but transformative encounters with plants.

00:32:43: so they're dealing rather not- Rather with the horror of plants being already in ourself because we are part of the environment.

00:32:51: We are animals also anyway.

00:32:54: And how can this realization?

00:32:57: that we are part of the world actually be perceived as something positive, right?

00:33:03: Not something horrific even though bodily transformations are always horrific.

00:33:07: But in these works I have to feeling that teenagers or young protagonists then conspire with the vegetal within themselves... ...to change the world for the better.

00:33:18: yeah

00:33:19: cool i'm having a really hard time Trying to put an image on my

00:33:25: mind.

00:33:26: Poison Ivy, for example DC's poison ivy.

00:33:29: I would say this is

00:33:30: a movie and

00:33:31: it.

00:33:31: This is the comic actually from dc universe.

00:33:37: And uh, this may be very popular example of this kind Of horror off the vegetal within but using It as a transformative positive force.

00:33:46: Okay interesting you said there are three modes.

00:33:50: I think you mentioned the lack of vegetation.

00:33:53: The transformative, is there another

00:33:55: one?

00:33:55: Okay so the horror of exposure right... ...the outside world threatening human beings in the form of horrific plant monsters.

00:34:07: then we have the horror off the vegetal within like being transformed for the better or worse by vegetal encounters and the horror of loss, a world without plants.

00:34:22: So I guess these are three modes that i'm identifying at the moment.

00:34:27: but since this project is still in making

00:34:34: it's great to get some early insights.

00:34:39: I want to ask about another term that you use in the title of your project, which again begins with planting seeds of emogenation.

00:34:48: And as we learned yesterday also very fond of puns and interesting funny takes on terms.

00:34:57: what is the imagination?

00:35:01: Well it all started thinking.

00:35:03: how can be used?

00:35:05: affect negative effect of Weltschmerz in the context of eco-criticism, right?

00:35:16: So I try to find a way for myself to productively use the kind of reactions that i have while reading climate fiction.

00:35:28: In my research and it really all started with me trying as well.

00:35:37: So not writing objectively about literature, but trying to combine it with my own reactions and my own sadness about the state of the world which I have in myself right?

00:35:48: And self-reflectively using this sadness or yesterday we talked a lot about melancholy too come to conclusions on what literature actually does for me as researcher.

00:36:05: So it is rather a half-serious, self-reflective mode of writing or my kind of research philosophy really.

00:36:19: It's not as field of study out there and maybe it will be turn right?

00:36:26: Maybe.

00:36:27: Yeah, but yeah.

00:36:29: so this is actually what I mean with emo ecocriticism and also the emogenation.

00:36:34: So turning to the darker sides of the environmental thought people like Timothy Morton have done it before me.

00:36:43: It's not something new dealing with the uncanny in The Environmental Humanities But i'm looking at it for example in YA & Children's Literature

00:36:55: Great.

00:36:55: And to go even further into your coinage of new terms, I suppose?

00:37:02: Yeah that's my thing.

00:37:03: Queen Of Pants!

00:37:06: You're...I mean it's- It has a sense about what is just by looking at the title or word but you first.. The book came out in two thousand twenty three called Atmos.

00:37:18: Fears right?

00:37:20: The joke isn't SPH F, so atmosphere.

00:37:28: Could you maybe tell us a bit more about how you came up with the term and what it means to you?

00:37:33: So at first glance, fall into the category of eco-horror, of equal anxieties.

00:37:50: But this is actually not what I try to imply by the term even though i appreciate that it has this double meaning to it.

00:37:58: with atmospheres...I actually mean the fears or the uncanny realization really that we are already part.

00:38:11: So the fear is not that I cannot control the outside world any longer, right?

00:38:16: And this is something That makes me worry about my future.

00:38:21: but in this case atmospheres.

00:38:23: It's really a very humbling inside that baby induces some kind of rethinking About my own role or our role within the world and how we are enmeshed with The non-human World.

00:38:39: so Atmospheres really is a gateway to the experience that... ...the world has been thrown out of balance by human beings.

00:38:55: And in this case, very uncomfortable painful and maybe even frightening truth.

00:39:02: That's also taken up on literature In climate fiction, eco-fiction Whatever you want call it.

00:39:10: Should we go into environmental thought too?

00:39:14: Is that easily understandable?

00:39:17: I mean, this is a term.

00:39:18: I just came up with for my talk yesterday.

00:39:22: So i'm not sure whether it can give you every fine definition because We had a lot of discussions surrounding This term yesterday.

00:39:30: Yeah Well let me ask the question one more time so That when we do editing It doesn't sound like we're debating what to ask.

00:39:41: Natalie, you also introduced another term to us yesterday and you termed it the environmental thought.

00:39:48: So instead of environment with the environmental Yeah same question What does that mean?

00:39:57: so I don't have a final definition on their term.

00:40:01: but since i'm dealing A lot With the uncanny In my research I wanted To play On The meaning Of the prefix an which we find in Uncanny, but also other words such as unacceptable or unbearable uncertainty.

00:40:21: In this case it always implies the opposite of not being something and part of environment.

00:40:30: so there is a kind of divide.

00:40:33: however The Un may also imply a feeling or sense of reversal and undoing something.

00:40:46: So turning back, right?

00:40:49: Which captures potential rethinking in how we can take something positive away from not feeling part off the environment.

00:41:00: so it has again kind of double meaning.

00:41:04: And I do think that environmental thought As I understand it, points to an awareness that our planet as we know it.

00:41:15: Our home does not exist any longer right?

00:41:20: so It doesn't provide the kind of solace That we usually associate with connotations off-home.

00:41:29: So a planet really has become the opposite of sheltering space and thats what environment implies, but at the same time I hope that it became clear in my talk how this changed home can be reclaimed again.

00:41:59: What is the kind of damage that has been done?

00:42:01: And what can I do productively through, for example, literary learning reading to find home again in this world.

00:42:10: So it's still a bit about hope and finding an alienated word or something to care for and protect.

00:42:19: cool.

00:42:21: maybe as closing question I'm awfully uneducated when it comes to plant horror.

00:42:27: So, i just wanted to ask you what's the coolest plant-horror novel or book that everybody should read?

00:42:33: Okay so... It

00:42:35: can't be more than one!

00:42:36: Thank you yeah because i wanted to say well..i need to give you three recommendations.

00:42:42: uh so if you are an adult reader ,I would suggest Lenny by Max Porter.

00:42:48: um That's a very cool novel, very contemporary so I give it a try.

00:42:55: If you are into short stories i highly recommend the classic by William Ho-Pochsen called The Voice in the Night.

00:43:04: It's only a few pages long really and it deals with fungi not plants.

00:43:16: And for middle schoolers, children's young adults I highly suggest Boy in the Tower by Polly Hohjen to British author.

00:43:24: It is a great

00:43:36: read!